Minor Hockey Talks - Hockey Forum

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:52 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:22 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:17 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:57 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:44 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:31 am

So the Rattlers dropped form 5th place to 6th place in the rankings, even after all the forfeits.
Well that was a big tumble!

MHR doesn’t count forfeited games, so it’s not affecting that much

So why all the dramatic stuff…website, petition, media, letters? What a ridiculous group of individuals. Blaming the GTHL for their own failures and mistakes. This needs to just go away.

Maybe scouts won’t check team which didn’t make playoffs or barely made it. Of course, considering that scouts are checking AA at all

Oh wow, you think that’s their concern? That their kids won’t get scouted to the OHL? How many do from AA anyway. Seriously if that’s what they are in an uproar about that are crazier than we thought.

Their concern boils down to not wanting to play VP in the first round. It is as simple as it gets. One team is going to go home earlier than expected unfortunately with this big mess that the Rattlers have caused or the Sharks mom has caused. Rattlers should not have appealed the 1 game suspension as it would have made no difference as they would not have finished first anyway.

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 3:00 pm This is great entertainment from an outsider!

After reading this chat and the MR website or whatever, in summary:

1. Salty mother makes complaint against MR.
2. Salty mother wins complaint against MR.
3. MR appeals, goes to special committee.
4. Special committee denies appeal.
5. Special committee increases prior penalty.
6. MR appeals again.
7. Special committee decreases some of the penalty.
8. Appeal is still in the process and could side either way.

What in the actual f is going on here

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:43 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:52 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:22 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 10:17 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:57 am

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 9:44 am
MHR doesn’t count forfeited games, so it’s not affecting that much

So why all the dramatic stuff…website, petition, media, letters? What a ridiculous group of individuals. Blaming the GTHL for their own failures and mistakes. This needs to just go away.

Maybe scouts won’t check team which didn’t make playoffs or barely made it. Of course, considering that scouts are checking AA at all

Oh wow, you think that’s their concern? That their kids won’t get scouted to the OHL? How many do from AA anyway. Seriously if that’s what they are in an uproar about that are crazier than we thought.

Their concern boils down to not wanting to play VP in the first round. It is as simple as it gets. One team is going to go home earlier than expected unfortunately with this big mess that the Rattlers have caused or the Sharks mom has caused. Rattlers should not have appealed the 1 game suspension as it would have made no difference as they would not have finished first anyway.

Thank you. Someone finally gets it.
MR will make playoffs. Out in the first round. Not what they want after that type of season and understandable. Their let them play crap is bogus. Check the petition too. Lots of duplicate names or plays on names. They are being allowed to play and quite frankly lucky to even have a shot at playoffs.

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:37 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:22 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:31 am Despite the admitted oversights of the team registrar/Rattlers organization
Everyone else is to blame.
It’s the fault of the person who noticed the error- not the admitted fact the error was made repeatedly in the first place.

The initial & reasonable 1 game loss/6 game trainer suspension doled out by the G, the resolution offered was not satisfactory & affected the pride of the Rattler parents.
They poked the G bear, appealed & have to forfeit more games.
Let us guess- the G is to blame for the Rattlers decision to appeal.

Despite the forfeits imposed by the appeal, the Rattlers still make the playoffs. But, they don’t want to play the team they may potentially oppose, because Rattlers could loose.
If the Rattlers get eliminated, it’s the fault of playoff bracket placement, not what the team itself may lack in strength.

Quite the predictable pattern these Rattler parents like to adhere to.

My kid is not in this cohort, but a similar case happened to us a few years ago. The main issue we had then, and I still have now, is that the GTHL follows the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. That may be because they have to deal with so many lawsuits it's their defaults setting. The rule itself, on unregistered team officials and players, is a sound one. The problem is in application of the punishment when it is clearly proven to be a clerical error. Our team self reported our error after 6 games into our season. We received: 20 game coach's suspension and all wins turned to forfeits. On appeal our coach's suspension was reduced to 10 games. It cost us 1st place in the division by season's end.

It's odd that on appeal the penalty to MR was increased exponentially. It seems excessively punitive. I can't speak to the motivations of the MR parents etc. I don't know them. I do think the G needs to review and reform this policy going forward. The penalty for a sincere clerical gaffe needs to be borne by the association (which is ultimately responsible for ensuring all paperwork is correct). Make it a fine to the association. More than $1000. But in no way should players be penalized for these kind of errors. It's a genuine miscarriage of justice.

In the end, our team used the scenario as a motivator. We ended up winning the G and going to OHFs. Maybe MR can do the same.

Every single game you have to verify and sign off on the roster before the game starts. This includes moving inactive and susoended players and team officials to the correct boxes. You then have to sign off on it. Not spotting that in that many games is not an "understandable mistake". Maybe once or twice. There is more to it.

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 3:22 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:37 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:22 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:31 am Despite the admitted oversights of the team registrar/Rattlers organization
Everyone else is to blame.
It’s the fault of the person who noticed the error- not the admitted fact the error was made repeatedly in the first place.

The initial & reasonable 1 game loss/6 game trainer suspension doled out by the G, the resolution offered was not satisfactory & affected the pride of the Rattler parents.
They poked the G bear, appealed & have to forfeit more games.
Let us guess- the G is to blame for the Rattlers decision to appeal.

Despite the forfeits imposed by the appeal, the Rattlers still make the playoffs. But, they don’t want to play the team they may potentially oppose, because Rattlers could loose.
If the Rattlers get eliminated, it’s the fault of playoff bracket placement, not what the team itself may lack in strength.

Quite the predictable pattern these Rattler parents like to adhere to.

My kid is not in this cohort, but a similar case happened to us a few years ago. The main issue we had then, and I still have now, is that the GTHL follows the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. That may be because they have to deal with so many lawsuits it's their defaults setting. The rule itself, on unregistered team officials and players, is a sound one. The problem is in application of the punishment when it is clearly proven to be a clerical error. Our team self reported our error after 6 games into our season. We received: 20 game coach's suspension and all wins turned to forfeits. On appeal our coach's suspension was reduced to 10 games. It cost us 1st place in the division by season's end.

It's odd that on appeal the penalty to MR was increased exponentially. It seems excessively punitive. I can't speak to the motivations of the MR parents etc. I don't know them. I do think the G needs to review and reform this policy going forward. The penalty for a sincere clerical gaffe needs to be borne by the association (which is ultimately responsible for ensuring all paperwork is correct). Make it a fine to the association. More than $1000. But in no way should players be penalized for these kind of errors. It's a genuine miscarriage of justice.

In the end, our team used the scenario as a motivator. We ended up winning the G and going to OHFs. Maybe MR can do the same.

Every single game you have to verify and sign off on the roster before the game starts. This includes moving inactive and susoended players and team officials to the correct boxes. You then have to sign off on it. Not spotting that in that many games is not an "understandable mistake". Maybe once or twice. There is more to it.

Again, can't speak to MR's case specifically, I'm not privy to their details. In our case, we had a player who accidently wasn't registered at beginning of season through a clerical error. He was a member of the team since tyke. Our manager noticed the name was absent the first few games and his name was manually added to the game sheet. This same sheet is signed off on by the GTHL admin team. They never noticed the issue either. We eventually did. The point being that the admin people at the GTHL office have some negligence in these situations as they are ultimately the ones tasked with making sure teams are compliant. I guess I'd have to ask in this situation with MR, what was the competitive advantage or risk to the team having a doctor on the bench who was not officially registered properly? The whole point of the rule is a) to prevent teams getting a competitive advantage by rostering ringers and b) having unqualified people on the bench. We agree the rule was broken here, but I've seen no evidence that a or b was in play. Perhaps there is more to this, but on the surface this looks like a case of fastening a thumbtack with a sledgehammer.

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 4:21 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 3:22 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:37 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 2:22 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 11:31 am Despite the admitted oversights of the team registrar/Rattlers organization
Everyone else is to blame.
It’s the fault of the person who noticed the error- not the admitted fact the error was made repeatedly in the first place.

The initial & reasonable 1 game loss/6 game trainer suspension doled out by the G, the resolution offered was not satisfactory & affected the pride of the Rattler parents.
They poked the G bear, appealed & have to forfeit more games.
Let us guess- the G is to blame for the Rattlers decision to appeal.

Despite the forfeits imposed by the appeal, the Rattlers still make the playoffs. But, they don’t want to play the team they may potentially oppose, because Rattlers could loose.
If the Rattlers get eliminated, it’s the fault of playoff bracket placement, not what the team itself may lack in strength.

Quite the predictable pattern these Rattler parents like to adhere to.

My kid is not in this cohort, but a similar case happened to us a few years ago. The main issue we had then, and I still have now, is that the GTHL follows the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law. That may be because they have to deal with so many lawsuits it's their defaults setting. The rule itself, on unregistered team officials and players, is a sound one. The problem is in application of the punishment when it is clearly proven to be a clerical error. Our team self reported our error after 6 games into our season. We received: 20 game coach's suspension and all wins turned to forfeits. On appeal our coach's suspension was reduced to 10 games. It cost us 1st place in the division by season's end.

It's odd that on appeal the penalty to MR was increased exponentially. It seems excessively punitive. I can't speak to the motivations of the MR parents etc. I don't know them. I do think the G needs to review and reform this policy going forward. The penalty for a sincere clerical gaffe needs to be borne by the association (which is ultimately responsible for ensuring all paperwork is correct). Make it a fine to the association. More than $1000. But in no way should players be penalized for these kind of errors. It's a genuine miscarriage of justice.

In the end, our team used the scenario as a motivator. We ended up winning the G and going to OHFs. Maybe MR can do the same.

Every single game you have to verify and sign off on the roster before the game starts. This includes moving inactive and susoended players and team officials to the correct boxes. You then have to sign off on it. Not spotting that in that many games is not an "understandable mistake". Maybe once or twice. There is more to it.

Again, can't speak to MR's case specifically, I'm not privy to their details. In our case, we had a player who accidently wasn't registered at beginning of season through a clerical error. He was a member of the team since tyke. Our manager noticed the name was absent the first few games and his name was manually added to the game sheet. This same sheet is signed off on by the GTHL admin team. They never noticed the issue either. We eventually did. The point being that the admin people at the GTHL office have some negligence in these situations as they are ultimately the ones tasked with making sure teams are compliant. I guess I'd have to ask in this situation with MR, what was the competitive advantage or risk to the team having a doctor on the bench who was not officially registered properly? The whole point of the rule is a) to prevent teams getting a competitive advantage by rostering ringers and b) having unqualified people on the bench. We agree the rule was broken here, but I've seen no evidence that a or b was in play. Perhaps there is more to this, but on the surface this looks like a case of fastening a thumbtack with a sledgehammer.

For someone who’s not directly involved you sure put a lot of thought and energy into this situation. Strange.

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 5:02 pm So what's the update today? All that noise yesterday, anyone hearing if it's making a difference and G gonna change anything?

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 5:16 pm

Guest wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2025 5:02 pm So what's the update today? All that noise yesterday, anyone hearing if it's making a difference and G gonna change anything?

D.o.n.a.l.d T.r.u.m.p signed their petition.